Sage College Publishing Podcast
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Sage College Publishing Podcast
The Curious World of Wind Goodfriend
Dr. Wind Goodfriend, a professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University, recently sat down with PsychSessions' Garth Neufeld to discuss her career and journey from a challenging childhood in Ames, Iowa, to becoming who she is today. Wind recounts her experiences with undiagnosed Tourette's Syndrome and autism, her expulsion from a religious school for protesting sexist policies, financial hardship, and cultural barriers. Despite these obstacles, she persevered, fueled by a lifelong passion for understanding human behavior. She emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and inclusivity in education and discusses her research on the psychology of cults. Most notably, Wind reveals how her upcoming intro psych textbook, "Psychology and Our Curious World," aims to make psychology relevant and engaging for students of all backgrounds by exploring real-world examples and thought-provoking questions.
Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of psych sessions. I am here with Dr wind Goodfriend, who is professor of experimental psychology and the Assistant Dean for liberal arts at Buena Vista University in Storm Lake, Iowa. Is that right?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:That's right. Hi, Garth, how are you?
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Hey, good. Good. Storm Lake, Iowa. I gotta tell you, I had to google maps this and figure out where exactly that was. And I'll tell you what was funny is, I love visiting different places in different states, and in like, a month from now, I'm going to be in Des Moines, Iowa for the first time. And if I would have known, we might have done this in person. I don't know that
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:would have been great. Why are you coming to Iowa? Not that many people come here on purpose.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:You know what? I co founded this intro psych online conference during the pandemic, called intro psych, coast to coast and and Joshua Woods, who is at Des Moines, and I should know Grandview, maybe. And so he is there, and he is going to take over the directorship of that conference, and so we're going to go have a meeting and just kind of plan for the future. So that's what's bringing me to Iowa. But here's what I know about Iowa, because I've done the AP reading for a long time. Actually, I've now retired from the AP reading. But yeah, there are great teachers in Iowa. Like there is a very strong contingent of psychology teachers there.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:So absolutely, and I'm from Iowa originally, I love Iowa. So I didn't mean to be saying anything bad about Iowa. I love it here. I was born and raised here, I left for a while and I came back on purpose. So props to Iowa. Yeah,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:I want to get into that because, well, yeah, for a number of reasons, I did look at your journey a little bit, and so we'll let everybody in on that shortly. But here's why we're talking today, because you are a massive contributor in the teaching of psychology world and beyond. And you and I were just talking before we started recording about where we first met. And I knew it. I knew I had seen you give a talk, and you said it was at night top, a long time ago, right?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Yes, it was at night. Top, it was right when my social psychology textbook was coming out, and so I've only been able to go to night top once, but that is where we met. Oh, okay,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:so yes, so you were giving one of the concurrent sessions there, right? And we met in the hallway very briefly, but you knew my podcast partner, Eric Landrum, right?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Because I was at Boise State as a professor for two years, and Eric and I became friends, yeah,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:yeah. And as I said ahead of time, he just thinks very highly of you. He was excited that we were having this conversation. And so anyway, I just want to welcome you to the podcast, and thanks for doing this. I am intrigued by your story, because you and I have been emailing back and forth, and you said something about a interesting or weird or something childhood that I want to get into. I want to figure out who you are and how you came to this this point. And I also, I'm sorry I did a little digging. I also know that you're a decorated teacher and that you've won some awards. You're a textbook author, you've written, you've actually, you've written a lot of stuff. Have you only written textbooks, or have you written other you've written other things as well, right?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:I have just maybe four months ago I hit 100 publications.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Goodness. So what's your writing schedule like? Do you get up every day and get after it consistently.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:It is pretty much my only hobby. I have no children. I used to have a dog, but pretty much I teach and I write,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:yeah, yeah. So on those Iowa days where you're buried in snow, because I remember happening this year, yeah,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:it is either snow or too hot, so
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:you have to be here's just an interest, like a curiosity. Question, would you consider yourself? Like, where are you on the introversion, extroversion scale? Like, do you like being by yourself and doing writing? Or do you need to have that, like social outlet as well?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:That's a great question. I think I I probably don't really fit either introverted or extroverted. I think I'm probably right in the middle of the bell curve and sort of the environment really shapes my personality. Yeah, in terms of my personality, the thing that really drives me is I'm, like, extremely low in anxiety, meaning I have no anxiety, which has advantages and disadvantages, because it puts me in maybe overly risky situations when I should maybe be a little bit more prudent. As an example, I spent a week in North Korea just for fun like so. I. What
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:my wife is going to die when she she tries to convince me of these kinds of things, and I think it's ridiculous. And anybody who knows my wife out there, you know that she's cut out of the same cloth. Okay, give us a little bit of North Korea. How did that come about? Oh,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:it's, it's a completely first of all, I think your wife is probably wise to maybe not go. So
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:maybe she was wise to marry somebody who said you can't go.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Oh, wait, so you're the one who says that you want to go or not to go. So I'm
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:I hold her back from right? She's not like, through the roof on openness. And I'm like, Yeah, we gotta tape it down a little bit. We at
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:my university here in Iowa, we take students on international trips every May for two or three weeks. And I got this wild idea, what would be the strangest, most exotic place in the world we could ever take students? And the answer was North Korea. So I went to my Provost, and I asked him, would you ever even give permission for me to take students to North Korea? And this was granted 12 years ago. Okay, so it was, it was actually right in the transition of Kim's. So basically he said, Well, I guess I would be willing to let you go go, if you went on your own beforehand and you did the itinerary and you felt like it was safe. So I actually went without students for a week and did it, and was going to take students the following year, but Kim Jong Il died, and Kim Jong Un took over in that year period, and Kim Jong Un put out a propaganda video saying, I'm going to take Americans hostage. And so we decided, yeah, probably shouldn't take students to Pyongyang. So that was the only reason I didn't take students, but I got to go for a week, and it was the propaganda tour of North Korea. We went to the anti United States Museum, which is all about how the United States are like war criminals. I went to the military parade. It was absolutely amazing.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:How do you do you fly right in there? Or do you no cross?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:You have to fly into either China or Russia. Okay, then you meet a representative from the North Korean government who has done a background check on you, and there are all these criteria for for who's not allowed in. So you can't be in the military, you can't be a religious missionary. You can't actually have any Korean ethnicity, because they're afraid that you're going to try to get relatives out. So then they meet with you and they do a final interview, which is supposedly just to approve you before you then fly into Pyongyang, but really it's to accept a bribe, so you have to basically give them some euros. They only accept euros, and then they then they let you fly into Pyongyang the next day. Wow. Okay,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:I have a feeling that this thread of, like, low anxiety and maybe high risk, I don't know, in high curiosity, that this may, may be a thread that we will get to in other areas of your life and career. What do you think? Yeah,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:it's, it's something that my current partner also is not a huge fan of. I think that my partner would prefer for me to be a little bit lower risk. But I sort of think of life as an adventure, and part of that is because of my childhood being maybe kind of cloistered and having some symptoms of some mental disorders that were never diagnosed. And so my childhood was very, kind of cut off from the world, and so now I feel like I'm trying to make up for lost time.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Oh, okay, all right, so we yeah, we want to get there, and we want to figure out how psychology has kind of weaved its way through from those early years to decisions you made to become a psych major. And so that's kind of where I would love to go now, before we get to your story, you have these textbooks behind you. I just, I love your bookshelf. I love people's bookshelves. I like looking at it when I'm on a zoom call with them, I've got the same Carl Jung action figure up top. So, yeah. So we're Yeah, so, but the stack that I'm really interested in behind you is the cults stack. Yeah. How is that? Yeah,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:I teach a class called the psychology of cults, about indoctrination and what defines a cult? What's the difference between a cult and a religion, for example? Or is academia a cult, for example? And so I've been teaching this class now for about six or seven years, and I luckily had the opportunity to do a class on the psychology of cults FOR THE GREAT. Courses. And so that's actually coming out in November, and so it will be available for a lot of people who are at universities or colleges. Many libraries have a database of videos called Kanopy, and so people should be able to stream it for free if they have the Kanopy database through their library.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Very cool. Tell me about the great courses, because I'm not aware of
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:it. It's if people are probably familiar with a company called masterclass, where they get celebrities to do courses teaching how to do writing or painting or photography or something like that. So the great courses is sort of a rival company to masterclass, where they do these informative, educational documentary series, but it's with scholars and academics instead of celebrities. So my course is 12 episodes. Each episode is half an hour, and it's all about the psychology of cults and indoctrination, understanding cult leaders. What are the personality traits of cult leaders? How do they recruit you? How do they get you to commit to the cults? Things like cognitive dissonance, and then, once you're in the cult, how do you get out? How do you what's the process of healing? My own research is on understanding intimate partner violence, and so I do parallels between the psychology of intimate partner violence and cult manipulation. So there's an episode about that. So it's it's 12 episodes, and I just had so much fun. I don't know fun is seems like a strange word, but it was fascinating to read about all these historic cults Jim Jones and Charles Manson and Nexium is one that was just in the news a few years ago out of New York, where Keith Ranieri was the cult leader. He created this sex cult pyramid where these young women were his sex slaves, and they had to recruit six additional sex slaves in this like strange, like business model, it was very bizarre when,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:when you so, you know, I think probably, like, cult documentaries have taken off in in popular media in the last few years. Do you still in again, we're using weird words here, but enjoy. I would say my wife really enjoys watching that stuff. I don't know why, but do you really enjoy it? Or have Do you feel like you've seen it all and it's just the same thing?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:That's a great question.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:And maybe it's both.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:It is both, because I find it fascinating from the psychological perspective, right? And I enjoy it from this kind of voyeur perspective, I guess, but it's also heartbreaking to see these real people's lives being destroyed, and the outward destruction if they're murdering people. That's I don't want to say I enjoy that, but I see the psychology of it, and I see the red flags of it. And so in some ways, I wanted to create the course and the documentary series through the great courses to potentially help people from having that experience, right? Just like I do my research on relationship violence, to try to be preventive in some ways, but we also have to avoid victim blaming, right? Because it is indoctrination, it is gaslighting. So it's this strange phenomenon, though, of, why are people so fascinated by cults? Why are these documentaries so popular on Netflix or Hulu? So it's this really weird meta experience. Also, of you know, there's a Saturday Night Live skit, even about women getting really into, like cult documentaries, almost as a cult in and of itself. So it's a really interesting psychological phenomenon, yeah,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:and it's predictable, right? If you do get the conditions right, then the cult will be successful somewhat, right? And okay, so one final question about this, who is at risk for being involved in a cult? That
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:is a great psychological debate, because a lot of scholars say, well, we can have a profile of a cult leader, you know, narcissism, anti social, personality disorder, those kinds of things. A lot of scholars say it's, we don't want to have a profile of a cult member or someone who's at risk of being recruited, because, in some ways it it's getting close to like victim blaming, like you shouldn't have been so gullible, or something like that. Yep, by saying that there's a profile, anyone who then doesn't fit that profile feels like I'm not at risk, and so they're not on guard, right? So that's one side of the debate in one of the episodes. Of my Docu series, I actually present that side of the debate, but I also say I can see the other side of the debate, which is that there are some things that they have in common. One thing is that people who are going through a life transition are much more likely to join cults because their identity is in flux a little bit. So people who have just graduated from college are more likely to join cults. People who are just going through a death in the family or a relationship breakup are more likely to join cults. So these life transition phases. Another thing that I talk about is we have kind of the dark triad personality traits for cult leaders, and then we have the light triad, I think, for people who join cults because they don't know they're joining a cult, they're usually lied to about what the group is. They're told it's a legitimate religion or it's a charity or something like that. And they join these groups thinking that they're actually going to do some good in the world. They think this is a group that's either a self help group, or it's a religion where I can, you know, maybe do some community service, or, you know, help people find the path to salvation or something. And so it's usually people who have genuinely good intentions and want to make the world a better place. So I find the people who join cults to be some of the nicest, most benevolent people, and then they're being exploited.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Yeah, yeah. Okay, all right. So then my, my, I said it was my last question, but cults, but my, my follow up question is this, when you take a look as a psychologist who studied these things and taught on them. When you look at ideologies in the United States, especially right now, like political ideologies, does it have any to you? Does it have any kind of cult like similarity?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Yes.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:On both sides, do you think it has?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:I do. I think, regardless of your personal political beliefs, and I have strong personal political beliefs, I do think cult of personality is a real thing, right? And so anytime you become completely closed minded, or you only believe my person is, you know, some sort of Messiah, or am I trying to get anti religious right? There might be legitimate messiahs, I don't know. But my person who is, you know, some sort of modern day Prophet and can do no wrong and everything that they say it should be taken completely 100% right, like should not be questioned. We're starting to get into potentially, like, zealot territory, and maybe we just want to have an open mind and critical thinking is helpful regardless of what side of the aisle you're on.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Well, there you go, and now we can get back to the rest of psychology, which is, you know, a science based and critical thinking. That's what we want to give our students, one of the best skills that we can give them. And I'm sure that's what you're working towards in all of your classes, including that and all of your writing as well. All right, so let's get I want to just trace back to your like, where this all began for you. I think this is kind of a like one of the most interesting parts of psych sessions is that we figure out where you came from that made you this person who does all the things that you do, might, I say, so successfully. And so you grew up in Iowa. Did you grow up like close to Storm Lake?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:No. So Iowa isn't one of the larger states, I guess. But I grew up in Ames Iowa, which is right in the middle, and it's where Iowa State is. And I grew up there. I don't really think of Ames being particularly rural compared to the most of rest of Iowa. It's but it's 50,000 so compared to people who are from actual cities, it's pretty small, but I wasn't on a farm or anything like that. So for me, it's a college town, and my parents both had college educations, and my father was actually abd in organic chemistry. And so it was always expected that we, all of their children, would go to college. And so we grew up with the expectation that education was our direction, and we would definitely go to college. It was just which college would we go to? Now I have three brothers. I'm the only girl. I you have two sisters, right? Uh huh, yep, I listened to your origin story, yeah. And it's not actually true that we all went to college, and one of my brothers went into the military instead. But the rest of us all did go on to college, and two out of four. Of us have advanced degrees.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Okay, and where are you in the birth order?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:I'm third out of 4. Two older.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:don't know the research on that, but Eric always asks people, so I I'm asking for Eric is basically what I'm doing. But yeah. Okay, so you're living in a cult. You live it. You grow up in a college town with college educated parents, so yeah, there was an expectation, or maybe just that was the norm, maybe for
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:your I think most, most people in Ames, Iowa, are somehow affiliated with the university, or most of the, not everyone, of course, but it's a very sort of ecology type of town, it's most of the people are educated Ames, high school, I don't know, like 80% of the people go to college afterward.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:All right, well, you opened the door to this, so I hope you don't mind if I ask, but you were talking about some undiagnosed symptoms that you were experiencing maybe in childhood, and I have a feeling that those kind of, in some ways, are integral into your journey. So you want to talk about that?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Yes, so my interest in cults is somewhat personal, just because I think my family, I don't think we were in a cult officially, but my family dynamics were cult esque. We were strange. We were just a strange family. My parents kind of cloistered us, I think partially because they were very religious. We went to parochial school, and I think there were some mental health things that ran in our family. I have epilepsy. I also had symptoms of both Tourette's Syndrome and Autism Spectrum Disorder, but they were not diagnosed because my parents didn't take us to the doctor, so they're still undiagnosed, not the epilepsy that one's been diagnosed, but because of the kind of we were also very, very poor, so My parents didn't have the money to buy us clothing and stores, for example, so my mother made us clothes like on her sewing machine at home. So this all combined into making us not the popular family at school. So my entire childhood, I did not have any friends at all until eighth grade, so I had these weird symptoms, right? So I would squeak. I would rock in my chair at school. My hygiene was not great. I was wearing my homemade clothes and just not really having normal facial affect, things like that. And so that was not helped when I mentioned I went to private religious school. I got expelled in fifth grade because I held a protest that the rules were sexist, so it was really not a great social experience for me. So this led me to psychology, because when I realized psychology existed as a field of study, I knew that's what I wanted to do for the rest of my career, for the rest of my life, because I thought, wow, there's this whole field of study on how to be a human being, and if I can study psychology, I can fit in and Be a human and have friends. So that's why I became a psychologist.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Okay, all right, so I'm gonna back up and ask you a couple questions about your stories. So I have, well, let me ask you, before fifth grade, kind of in that time, where you realized that you weren't making, maybe friends like other people were making, for a number of reasons, where did you, did you? Did you grieve that? Or did you, did you live in your head about like, or did you just, did you read a lot as a kid? That's
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:AG, that's exactly what I did. Yeah, so I hung out with my brothers a lot. I was, I guess, a tomboy. I'm also pansexual, so, like, three out of four of us are in the LGBTQ community. And so I just, I didn't, I didn't know where or who I was. And. So books were absolutely like my refuge. So I would be in my room or with my brothers, and all we did all day was read books. And I sort of would go to sci fi fantasy books, I think because I could create a world and live in that world where there were robots or dragons or something, because they would accept me. And so books and psychology were my first two places where I imagined I can figure out how to be a human being, because when I would read books, it would give me an insight into how people would think and how people would interact, because it was sort of teaching me how do people talk to each other, and the narrator, you can see how they're thinking about things. So it would teach me how do people think. And then psychology was an insight into that, but that wasn't until really, little bit later, and then the other thing that was an insight for me was theater. So when I got to be in plays in middle school and in high school, I loved theater, because people had to talk to me because it was in the script, so it was sort of forced interaction. So books psychology and theater and also theater because it was generally kind of other people who were a little bit strange, like me. So I liked theater because the theater crowd was maybe a little bit more accepting. And so books, theater and psychology were really the things that, in some ways, kind of saved me, saved my life, and made me feel not as isolated.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:I would have to survey all of our colleagues to find this out, but I just have a feeling that our teaching colleagues have some sort of theater past more than kind of the general population of people who go to college. I don't know what that is, and maybe I have got to buy a sample, but I can. I am just thinking about all of our teaching psychology colleagues that I know, who we've had conversations about, yeah, did theater, and they are some of the most successful people, the Eric landrums, the Jane hallanans, Lindsay Maslin. I'm forgetting a bunch of people that I know have this background. What is that? And maybe I'm wrong, but what is that, I wonder, and maybe it is this, this fascination with being human and, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:it's two things. I'm sorry. I
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:didn't mean, oh, go ahead. Yeah.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:I think it's two things. One is theater and psychology are both a study in humanity and how, what is human motivation, right? What? I think there's a lot of trauma in in psychology, there's a lot of healing. And in theater, right? There's a lot of processing people's emotions in both psychology and in theater, there's a lot of sort of surprising about yourself in both I've talked to a lot of people who are directors, and they say one of the key moments in any play is when someone realizes something about themselves in theater. And I think that in psychology, we're trying to help students realize things about themselves. So I think that's part of it, is that we're drawn to theater because it's this study of humanity. But I think people who are really good teachers bring theater into their classroom, right? Yeah, because we want that kind of engagement with the classroom as our audience. We want our 50 minutes, or, you know, 75 minutes, or however long, we have to be exciting and engaging and passionate, yeah, almost like a one act play every single day.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Yeah? It's performative, certainly, absolutely. Yeah. So that could be another connection. So anyway, somebody out there should do this research for us and tell us why that is the case, and then across disciplines, is it the same? That performative piece? All right, so when you're 10 years old, you get kicked out of school for putting on a what was it? It was a it was a rally. It was a,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:what did a two week protest at my religious school? What?
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:What does that look like? At policies
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:were well, so they basically only allowed the boys to have, sort of like, certain leadership roles in the school. Yeah. And I and all my brothers got to do this, and I didn't, and I went to the principal, and I basically said, this is sexist. I'm not having it. The principal didn't care for that or my attitude, and that wasn't the first time that I got in trouble. And so they basically said, well, follow the rules. And so the only protest you can do in fifth grade is kind of like I decided we had been learning about like Martin Luther King Jr, and, you know, peaceful protest and, and so I said, Well, okay, I'm going to apply my knowledge. And so I just said I'm not going to speak until the policy is changed, so I wouldn't answer questions or engage in the classroom. So it was sort of me being silent to show that they were silencing my voice by this policy. And so after two weeks, they expelled me. I went to public school after that,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:okay? A 10 years old, so fifth grade. What was I doing? I was playing sports and probably on the playground or whatever, and probably trying to hang out with my friends and get accepted, and you were out there protesting, what is it like? Where did this come from in you, and who told you it was okay? Did anybody give you permission? Some somebody, your brothers, your your family, did anybody say this was a good idea?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Absolutely not. But I mean, like I said, I was, I was a very strange child.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Yeah. Has that stuck with you? Do you have a strong sense of justice right now? Like even has it followed you?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:I, I hope so. I'm the director of the Gender Studies program at my university as well. I I just, I think, partially because I felt disenfranchised and stigmatized and ostracized for most of my life, I try now to not allow that to happen to other people. Um, everyone just wants respect and and validation, and that's one of the reasons that I am in psychology, and that's one of the things when I write, when I put these textbooks out, I try to really emphasize that. So I have an introduction to psychology book coming out in the fall, and one of the things that I think makes it different from some of the other intro psych books is that we really emphasize stigma. So in the chapter on psychological disorders, there's an entire section on mental health stigma and why that matters. The other textbooks that are out there on the market, many of which are fantastic, talk about in the motivation and emotion chapter, pretty much everyone talks about hunger as an example of motivation and emotion. Is it motivation? Is it emotion? Hunger is a great example of sort of the biopsychosocial model, because people don't always eat just because they're hungry. Sometimes it's comfort food or because it's a social occasion that you eat a feast or something. So everyone talks about hunger, and almost every textbook talks about obesity as being a problem. And sure, obesity is a problem in the United States, but in this textbook, we also talk about the stigma that we give to people based on body size, and we talk about body positivity. So I really want people in the psychology class to feel seen and respected.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Okay, so when is that book coming out? By the way, we should give it a quick plug here. So what is the name of the book, and when's it coming out? When can people kind of get their hands on it? Are you still reviewing?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:It's no, the reviews are done. It's coming out in January of 2025, and it's called psychology and our curious world. It's with sage publication,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:okay? And you, you said we so who else is on this title? I'm guessing there's co authors. There are co authors, or else, or else. It's nuts. If you wrote an intro psych textbook all by yourself from scratch. Oh, my goodness, we got other things to
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:talk about that is a huge endeavor. It is been years in the works, actually. Okay, so I'm really proud of the co author team, actually, and we are all absolutely just fantastic friends. And we get along great, which has been a blessing as well. Cool. So Gary Lewandowski in New Jersey is a co author charity. Griffin is a co author. She's an HBCU, and then Tom heinzen is an emeritus professor in New Jersey. And so that's the co author team, and we are all from different backgrounds, and that partially made it a really nice team. And one of the things I'm really proud of is that we have all agreed to give. Uh, 10% of our royalties to charity, and so we are really proud of the fact that we've all chosen a different charity that's close to our hearts. And so is it okay? If I mentioned, yeah, of course, yeah, let's go. So for me, I have a family member who is a two time suicide survivor, suicide attempt survivor, and I also mentioned that several members of my family, including myself, are in the LGBTQ community. So I'm actually splitting my charity donations between two charities. One is the Wounded Warrior Project, which helps veterans with mental health needs. And then the other charity I'll be giving money to is the Trevor Project, which helps prevent suicides for LGBTQ people.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Right on.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Then Gary Lewandowski has chosen to give his charity donation to the Make a Wish Foundation, so they help people who have various illnesses make their wishes come true of any kind of wish that they have. And then charity Griffin, I mentioned that she's a professor at an HBCU, so historically black colleges and universities, so she's giving her charity money to the Thurgood Marshall foundation, so they give scholarships to people of color to be able to go to college at HBCUs. And then Tom heinzen is giving his charity donation to an organization called Glass roots, which actually helps people from urban areas in New York and New Jersey, who are young people in the community learn about business and entrepreneurialship in the form of learning about business models through glass art. So it's combining art and business and helping young people learn about how to have business skills through art.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:So cool, so cool. I haven't heard of that being done before, you know, for a big textbook title, although I know that textbook authors and the ones that I know are very generous. Y'all are very generous people, and I really love that about you. I wonder if there, again, is some sort of, you know, correlation between the generosity of of of of writing something new that you think is going to be helpful for people, and then also your generosity to give it away, and to give, in this case, cash away to those folks. And as somebody who runs a nonprofit, I know how much that means to people in those positions, to have a check coming in every once in a while, and and I'm, I'm going to imagine it's a little unexpected in your you know, when you're getting those royalty checks that it's you don't know what it's going to be, so sometimes they're going to be as surprised as you all are, and I hope in the best way. So okay, well, that's great. So now we are, we're kind of into your How did you get introduced to psychology in your childhood? If we can pop back into what is this teenage years? Yeah, uh huh.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:So one of my first friends in middle school, she actually, so she had an eating disorder and she went to therapy, and I think that's kind of where I figured out what psychology was. Was she had a therapist, and I thought, oh, okay, there are people out there who are trying to help other people. And so I that's how I learned what psychology was. At first, I thought it was just therapy, and I thought, I'm not particularly suited for therapy, but when I realized that there was more to psychology, that's when I really fell in love with it as a field. And then I took a sort of an introduction to psychology class in high school, and I have done the AP reading that you mentioned earlier. I did that for about six years.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Whoa, okay, I would have overlapped. We must have, I'm
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:sure we did. Yeah, it's hundreds of people. Yeah, right, those essays. So, so I, I knew I liked psychology, and then I I, but I was only able to take sort of that one class in high school. So then I went, I went to college. I double majored in psychology and theater. And I know you from some of the other episodes I've listened to you, you asked people sort of, did you know that you were going to be a psychology major? And a lot of people change their major. I know you started as a business major. Yeah, something else in Canada, right? Yeah. Commerce, commerce, right, yeah. So I knew I was going to be a psychology major and a theater a double major with theater, and I was 95% sure I wanted to be a psychology professor, because I loved, you know, reading and books, and I loved college, but I had this tiny little hope that maybe I would do theater, like be a professional actress or something, that was crushed very quickly. I. Uh, because I went to BVU, which is where I'm a professor now. So this is my alma mater, and I love BVU. So this is not anti BVU, but it is anti this one professor. So, um, when I went here, many, many years ago, it's a small school, so there's only one theater professor, and I tried out for my very first play as a little, you know, 18 year old, first year student, all excited about my theater major, and it was A Midsummer Night's Dream. And I was familiar with the Shakespeare. I had read the play. I understood the actors or the characters, I mean, so I try out, and he calls me back and I'm going to the callbacks, and, you know, keeps asking me to read for the one of the two main female characters in this play, and I'm all excited, like, I'm going to get a good role, and I'm just a first year student, and he actually kept me, like, pretty This isn't like, a weird harassment story, but he kept me later compared to most of the other people trying out for this show. And at the very end of the auditions, he said, Well, wind, I want you to know that you're really talented, and you can really read the lines very well, and I can tell that you understand the Shakespeare, and I'm glad you're a theater major, because I think you're going to be very helpful, and I think you're going to be a really good director, but I'm not going to be able to give you a very good role in this play, because you're just not pretty enough to be an actress. And I thought, okay, I guess I'll be focusing on the psychology. Oh, yeah,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:did you you? I mean, you knew enough, you had enough sense that you knew that this was not right. Well,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:I was, I mean, it's upsetting to hear, Well, of
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:course, but I think that that some people might just say, I'm gonna, I'm going to guess, because of the well where you landed, and then some of the Justice stuff early in your life, that at that point, you knew that this was, like, more about this person than it was about you, although I'm sure it hurt.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:It was, it was hurtful to hear that. I also sort of went all in on the feminism at that point.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Yeah, yeah, of course.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:And I remained a theater major for my entire time here, and he kept casting me as a man in every play. But I did decide at that point, I guess I'll become a psychology professor. So I have always from a month into college now and that I was going to become a psychology professor, yeah.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Oh, that's heartbreaking. You know, I sometimes, whether it's in these conversations or when I'm giving talks at conferences or whatever. Sometimes I'll ask people to think about the professor who had the most impact in their life. Usually it's a very positive experience. Every once in a while you get people who have these nightmare kind of experiences and but they're so formative, like it puts them onto another track, or it clarifies what their future is going to be, or whatever it is anyway. I'm sure you had great people as well, but it is the it is sometimes the people who are that we who are, you know, the most incompetent or the meanest or the Yeah, Who? Who? Who can shape our futures in different ways as well. And we, you probably think about that from time to time when you are working with students. I imagine,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:I absolutely do. I mean, I would never want to say something like that to a student and have them kind of be haunted by that for the rest of their lives.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Oh, yeah, because that's what it is especially at that age, right? It can get, get to that point where it just sits there for a long, long time.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:It was not, it was not helpful for my self esteem.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:I bet it was not okay. So full on theater major and then psych major, and you now are kind of committed to that career, probably at that point, right? You're thinking about being a professor so you finish your psych major, did you have lab experience and stuff as an undergraduate?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:We don't really have labs here, because we're such a small school. The entire university student body. We have online students. But for the brick and mortar campus here in Storm Lake, we only have 700 students for the whole university. So there are only three psychology faculty for the whole university. So we really are very sort of teaching focused. We have something that I've actually created now that I'm a professor. Here we have a psychology research club where we do a research project. It's extracular, Extra. Extracurricular. We take students to conferences in PA in Chicago every year. Sometimes I see Eric there. So we do have them do research outside of class, and, you know, the conference presentations, I help them publish, sometimes in undergraduate journals, but I didn't really have that experience. I had to do summer internships back in at Iowa State, actually, in my summers, and that's what helped me to kind of get into graduate school. And so now I try to help my students do that. Yeah, I know that that's the kind of thing it's going to have they're going to have to do to get into graduate school. Yeah,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:it's interesting. I kind of ask because it's timely for me. I'm at a community college. We don't give students any kind of research experience. We are fortunate in that we are allowed in our state to teach them research methods, which is my favorite course to teach, and so I get to have that experience with them, but by the time they transfer into to the University of Washington in Seattle, or something like that, they're sort of behind in their research experience, and so we're trying to figure that out, like, how can we bridge that gap a little bit better? This year, I will take a group of students for the first time, next spring to WPA, just to experience it, right? They won't be presenting, but just to experience it and to understand what that world give them that regional conference experience, to understand what the profession looks like in academia. Yeah,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:that's so exciting. Yeah, I'm
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:really, really excited about it. So anyway, okay, so we're running a little low on time. We got about 10 minutes, and I want to get to some other things. So as you finish up your undergraduate degree in psychology, how did you decide to go to grad school, and how did you decide which grad school to go to?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Well, I knew I had to do grad school if I wanted to be a professor, and so I knew that was always the plan for me. I did not have a lot of great guidance as to how to choose a graduate school, or even what graduate school would look like. So I was kind of lost when it came to applying. I just sort of choose. I chose schools because the name of the school was prestigious, like Harvard or Yale, like and that was a bad model, not that those schools aren't great, but I knew I wanted to do social psychology, and I didn't know how to choose doctoral programs that were particularly good in that area of psychology, right? So I actually remember the application for Yale, you applied to the graduate school in general. This was, at least, you know, 30 years ago, when I was applying to graduate school. It's probably different now that we have computers, but back then, you had to do it in the mail. And so they sent me in the mail the little form I had to fill out with my actual pencil. And there's little Scantron. And because I'm older, you know, and oh,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:our audience gets this. We're with you.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:I know you can't see me, Garth's audience, but I actually had to do this in the mail, and they actually had a space where I was supposed to write in the numbers of my patents. And I remember thinking, I don't have any of those. I don't have any patents. Maybe I'm not going to get into your graduate school.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:So did in your at your undergraduate institution, at Buena Vista? Did you have somebody who was guiding you through this, or was that kind of where the guidance was ending, like as you were applying?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:So I told them I wanted to be a professor, and they said, Okay, you're gonna need a PhD. Here's a book. And they handed me this big book that was like 400 pages, and it just listed every school in the United States that had a PhD program in any kind of psychology, and their address basically, okay. And so I just sort of picked a dozen of them, yeah, and I think maybe they had email addresses. I don't That was about as tech bars technology went back then, and I and I emailed them, or physically mailed them, sort of an inquiry. And I remember back then you had to pay about $100 to apply. So it cost me about$1,000 to apply because I also had to pay for like the certified mail to get the application packet to them. So I applied for 11 schools, actually, and I only got into two. And I visited those two. It was University of Connecticut and Purdue, and I went to Purdue because it was just more well known in the Midwest. And I'm from the Midwest, and that's how I went to Purdue.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Yeah. So at that point, any benefit you have, like have coming from a college educated. Family, you kind of all that knowledge kind of ran its course by that time, and then you were on your own, like so many
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:well, because they didn't really know how to help me get into psychology specific graduate school. They, they were pretty clueless about that,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:yeah, yeah. Okay, so you end up at Purdue. I guess everything went pretty well. You stayed there for a while, right? Yeah, yeah. Purdue
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:was a good education, and then by the time I got out of there, I did pretty well on the job market to become a professor. I got several offers to become a professor. Ended up going straight to Boise State, and I was there for two years. But then the job opened here at BVU, and it's my alma mater, and so I ended up coming back here because it felt like home and I and it's a small liberal arts school, and that's really kind of where my heart was.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Any kind of notable things that you remember from graduate school that you would want to share. You did a master's and a PhD both right at Purdue.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:I did. I think for me, the main memory that I have was just I was so so poor. I sold my blood twice a week for three years because we weren't allowed to have jobs at Purdue. So they basically told us, if you have a job, like waiting tables or something like that, you're not spending enough time on your studies. So if they found out we had a job, they would kick us out. So I had two secret jobs. One was selling my plasma, selling my blood, which I could, sort of, do you know, off the radar. So I sold my blood, and I remember paying, I got paid $40 each time I did that. Were you sick all the time? I was sick and tired and kind of just like one all the time. And I couldn't afford a car, so I had to take the city bus to like the blood plasma place. And I remember that there was a guy who was apparently on the same donation route or timetable that I wasn't he had like, this pet bird that would sit on his shoulder, and it would like poop on him all the time. So I was like, Oh yeah, there's bird poop guy. So I have that memory vividly in my head. And then I also had a secret job where I was an overnight security guard at the mental hospital in West Lafayette, Indiana. So I did that for two years. So I feel like don't tell, or they might take away my doctorate, but I was the overnight security guard at the mental hospital for two years, secret job that I did just to eat basically while I was in grad school. So I was just so so poor. So I remember just being kind of miserable because I was like, eating, you know, like ramen noodles and mac and cheese just to get by, yeah, but it was. It was totally worth it, because I love my job now, but it was, it was pretty miserable there for a while well,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:and I just want to go back to those 11 applications that you sent out for 100 bucks a pop. I'm sure that that was quite, quite a sacrifice. So sometimes not knowing how to navigate a system is costly, not only in like your energy, but also financially. And so, yeah, it's, that's why it's just so good that our, I think most institutions have fairly good advising, like, I think hopefully we've learned something in the, you know, in the institute to help students a little more,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:right? And, and I mentioned earlier, like, my family was just poor, right? So I didn't have savings, I didn't have money. So every dollar really mattered. $1,000 to apply for graduate school was all the money I had saved for my entire college life. Yeah, so it, it's the investment that I had for myself, because I knew this is setting up the my entire career, right? But it was kind of painful
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:at the time. How did you pay for grad school?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Well, they they gave me tuition remission in exchange for being a teaching assistant and a research assistant, and then a stipend. It was like $12,000 a year. So, you know, that's not a lot of money to live on, which is why I had to do the plasma and the secret. Yeah, yeah. I lived on, like, credit cards for a long time. Yeah. I went to a lot of, like, call out for the, you know, bingo club, because we're going to have pizza. And so I would go to the bingo club just because, yeah, have free pizza, and pretend like I wanted to play bingo, and just because they would have free pizza, you know, for a while, my partner and I, you know. They would have things like, we're going to have a meeting at a restaurant, and I would have to go, but we couldn't afford to buy something at the restaurant, so we would order water, and then we would order an appetizer, and we'd split the appetizer as our food. Yeah? So, you know it was, it was pretty sad, yeah,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:yeah, yeah. I'm happy to see it at my current institution, and I hope that others are doing this as well, that there is like we have, we now have a process for helping students basically in these sorts of situations and emergency grant funding, and it's quite generous, and it doesn't ask a lot of questions. It's kind of the right way to do it, and I don't think that there's a bunch of students taking advantage of it. It's just it's a very nice thing. And so I hope that's happening more and more at our institutions. Yeah, so you've you end up back in Storm Lake. How did things change there, from the time you left to the time you were employed by them,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:in some ways, the student, the student body, has changed. Because I think when I was a student here, there had just been a very generous financial donation to the university, and so the endowment was sort of at its peak for the university, and they had just built a bunch of brand new buildings on the campus. And so it was really competitive to get in when I went to PBU. And now that's less true. So basically, the I think the student body has changed a little bit, and I feel like they're they're maybe less prepared for college, and so they need a little bit more nurturing. So one of the things that I find is that the students just just needs more care, I think. And I don't know if that's because of covid, I don't know if that's just a generational effect, but I think maybe it's that we're recognizing mental health issues better than in previous generations. I you know, I think a lot of students just need some reassurance that we care about them as people, and then we're not just here to grade their papers. So I feel like maybe it's just me seeing the professor side that I didn't acknowledge when I was a student, but I think something that the faculty talk a lot about, and I think this is probably true across the nation, at every institution of higher learning is, I think the students right now just need someone to see them, you know, see them as people, and see them as more than just their student ID. I think they want to be acknowledged as individual humans who have some flexibility of needs, right? That that a deadline? Of course, we need to hold them responsible and teach them accountability. But a deadline can be changed if you have a human moment, yeah,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:yeah, absolutely. I I read something that you wrote for STP back in because I noticed, you know, now we kind of divide time, like post pandemic and pre pandemic. But it was pre pandemic and it was just this. It was a quick little, kind of like classroom article, and it was about, kind of an intermission or something in a class, right? Oh yeah. You remember that? Do you remember sometimes I write things, and then I'm like, Oh yeah, I did write that, didn't I? Yeah, wow, that
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:was a long time ago, yeah.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:But I,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:when I teach intro psych, halfway through, I do intermission, and it's something silly, like, for anyone who watches Doctor Who, what does TARDIS stand for? And, you know, things like that. And it's a complete break from whatever we're talking about. It's halfway through, it partially, just like wakes them up if they were kind of zoning out, which everybody does, I zone out in faculty meetings. You know, it's just fun, and it's just kind of to remind them that, first of all, we should all be having fun in here, and we're all humans, and I'm a nerd and I watch Doctor Who and, you know, it's just kind of like, let's just remind each other that we're all here and we're humans, and the world can Sometimes be frustrating, and we're all sad sometimes, and we're all just here for a common purpose, right? Like, we're all here because we want to learn and we want to make the world better, and just just check in with each other, like, How's everybody doing?
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Yeah, well, what, what you talked about with. Regards to your students now, and kind of what your students need. I feel like in your past, there's evidence here, even in this article, that that's kind of always been a part of who you are, which is kind of valuing the human and the student experience at the same time. I'm sure your students, actually, I know your students and your institution appreciate it, because they have recognized your teaching. So, yeah, that is, that's fantastic. So how long have you now been at Buena Vista?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:This is my 20th year.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Wow, that's, that is a mark. And you've been in, yeah, you've been teaching in higher ed for over 20 years. Kind of, my last question is going to be, how has that changed? How have you changed as an instructor now, 20 years in, like, what kind of freedom do you have? Are you breaking any rules that you wouldn't have formed? Okay, good, yeah, you peaked up there. So what? What's going on?
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Yeah. Well, one is, I don't know if I shouldn't say this out loud, the state of Iowa's got some rules for public schools in what we are and are not allowed to actually teach in our classroom that I am breaking, which I'm allowed to break because we are a private school, and The President of the University is supportive of that. I'm just going to say the words critical race theory. So I do tend to kind of push the boundaries of we should be talking about things like intersectionality. That is a real thing, and talking about the controversy and talking about these issues, if we if we ignore them, they're not going to magically get better. But also, just in terms of my teaching style, I teach less material. I don't try to cram every single word that's in the book into my class, because not gonna remember it anyway. Let's talk about what matters in people's lives. Talk about how you can apply it. You know, I know you've talked about these issues in the podcast. What? How are you actually going to use this in your life? What is it? Why do we care about these things? Why is psychology important? How are you actually using psychology in your life? Every day, when you go to the store and you're choosing what products to buy, when you're having an argument with your friend, when you're trying to decide whether or not you want to marry this person, that's all psychology. I listened to your episode about how kitchens were redesigned, right? And so that's psychology, right? So all of this stuff is psychology. So when I design my classes like psychology of cults, right? Potentially, this could stop someone from joining a cult. That would be my sort of fantasy of how this actually matters in someone's life. So in flexibility of deadlines, right? I used to be kind of like a hard ass. And, you know, if, if someone is point five away from the next grade up, but they've really tried, I'm gonna round up, you know? Yeah, I'm just, I'm just a lot more chill now. Because, yeah, you know, if you've tried, I want to reward that, yeah? So I just, I come from a more sort of humanistic perspective now than I used to.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Yeah, I love it. I love it. So do I. I always when I'm rounding up, I justify it by I've got bias. I probably got something wrong at some point, so there you go. Yeah,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:trying to make sure that I'm not more generous to certain kinds of students, right? Because now implicit bias is going to come into play. Absolutely,
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:absolutely. Well, hey, I just wanted to make sure that we got through all of the stuff, the cool stuff that you're doing. And now I know we talked about that intro psych book. You also do a social psych book that's your area. So how long have you been doing that? One for social
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:psych is actually going to be coming out in its third edition next year. So that's been really very successful, and I'm really proud of that one that's also through sage, and then I also have a relationships textbook, and also through sage. And the first edition of that was sole author, but Gary Lewandowski is going to be co author on the second edition, so I'm excited to bring him in. And he's just a fantastic guy, and he's got great ideas for how to make the second edition even better.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Didn't he also write a research methods book somewhere with, yes, he
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:has, like, a research methods book too.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Does, what does this guy just write? He just locks himself away and writes all day anyway. I'll look forward to talking to him at some point as well. Well, hey, do you have any final things that you want to share, or any other projects that you're super excited about? As we finish up today,
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:well, I want to thank you for all the service that you do to psychology too, with the APA guidelines and everything, and this podcast, it's fantastic. And so thank you for that. I have three audio books through audible that are free for people who are audible Prime members. And so I'll just mention that. And then the Colts documentary series that should be out on canopy for free, for anybody who has that subscription for colleges and universities. And then, oh, and then I was going to show it, but people are listening. Can't see in November, I co authored a book on the psychology of The Handmaid's Tale. So it's very timely for some of the changes going on politically in our country right now. So people who are fans of Margaret Atwood's books or the Hulu series of The Handmaid's Tale, the CO edited book comes out in October or November, anywhere where books are sold, and it's got a lot of great chapters about motherhood and the trauma of being told how to Use your body.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Yeah, that one. If folks have not seen that show, I would say, watch the show. Read the Atwood book and then read Wynn's book. Hey. Um, that that sounds, that sounds awesome. Um, yeah. And by the way, I think I saw this at some point in an email we sent. But if you want to check out that intro psych book that is coming out college publishing, dot sage hub.com, I think, is where people are going to find that wind. It was so nice to finally get you on record here, and thanks for taking the time to meet with me and to share your story with our audience.
Wind Goodfriend, Sage Author and Professor of Experimental Psychology at Buena Vista University:Thanks so much for letting me share with you. It was really my pleasure.
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions:Hey, listeners to check out wins psychology and our curious World Book, please visit College publishing.sagepub.com, forward slash intro, Psych.